Okay i am new to this and i plugged the programmer into the computer and both LED's went on then when i placed in the pic with 3 rows left to the back and 10 to the front the green led goes off and only the red one is on. Then when i go to program it using the .hex file i get this error :ERROR->writing address 0x000000 Written:0x0000 Read:0x3FFF when ti tries to program the red led blinks a little. I think that i have the settings right in Winpic800 i selected the right hardware and it says that it sees the programmer so i don't know what i'm doing wrong? chris